wompninja
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Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:20 pm
I'm having a new transaxle built for my 70 beetle, it's going to have every upgrade you can do to a transaxle. My CV's are pretty much shot and I want to just get new axles. What is the best axle I can get CV to CV? This is not a drag car, but I like to drive fast and have a problem keeping my foot out of it.
Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:39 pm
The best are going to be something torsional out of chromoly or 300m. If you're not drag racing, all you need is Type 181 Thing Halfshaft. The axle is the same length as a Beetle, but is slightly larger in diameter, and has wider splines at the end to accommodate the wider Thing CV's. You'll need the CV cups for the trans for a 100mm joint, and the stub axles for the 100mm joint also. I know quite a few using stock Thing Stubs/Halfshafts in drag cars, so the factory VW Thing stuff is all you should need. I can probably find some halfshaft axles for you if your having trouble locating some.
Brian
Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:17 pm
^ agreed.
or just regular EMPI axles.
Howard 111
Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:31 pm
I put type 2 CVs, with Sway-Away axles, on my Ghia.
Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:30 pm
Brian wrote: ^ agreed.
or just regular EMPI axles.
The Empi Thing Halfshafts have a nice thick axle. Whether it was the angle, or just plain abuse, I have seen off-roaders break the standard Empi stock replacement Type 2 CV's. The complete Empi Thing axles with joints aren't that expensive, and if you do break a joint, the 98-5084-B Type 2 joint has a chromoly cage that is much stronger that you could use as a replacement. Or find some Thing axles, and get the heavier joints to start with. The racers I know use good used stock 30+ year old Lobro VW Joints.
vwracerdave
Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:51 pm
I have all Type 181 Thing parts( stubs, axles, CV's, & flanges) on my Ghia with 175 HP that is drag raced with slicks and driven on the street. Have not broken anything yet. If you are worried about axles then get the Sway-Away. The Type II & Type IV CV joints have been reported to hold up on 250 HP drag cars. Some of the Porsche 924 also used the same Thing parts but I'm not sure what years.
If you want to use the Type I Bug stuff then use real German Lobro brand CV joints and not any of the China shit. They should be fine for a street car up to 150 HP.
There is a difference between type IV CV joints used on a Thing and Bus CV joints. The Thing have larger balls and are reported to be stronger. The Bus CV joints with smaller balls and allow more travel angle that is not needed on a street Bug.
If you are building a Off Road race car or a drag car with more then 250 HP you need to get all Porsche 930 stuff.
Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:32 pm
It's been a while since I've had the different joints apart. I was always under the impression that the 100mm joints with the smaller balls were stronger since the webbing of the cage was thicker. Some feel the greater surface area of the larger balls make a joint stronger. Like vwracerdave mentioned, unless you're building a jacked up Baja, most street Beetles run with their axles fairly straight, so either one will work.
wompninja
Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:57 pm
Is this what you guys are talking about? http://www.jbugs.com/product/90-6905.html?Category_Code=empi-vw-axles-assemblies
Isn't EMPI stuff just garbage?
wompninja
Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:04 pm
Or this?
http://www.thethingshop.com/C_V-AXLE-SET-2-JOINTS-1-AXLE/productinfo/181501CV-SET/
Then I'd need thing stubs as well?
gt1953
Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:11 pm
Or even the Oriellys life time warranty ones. Purchase them once if the wear out or break return them.
By the way what is your over all application of the vehicle gonna be?
wompninja
Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:13 pm
It's just a street bug but I'm leaning towards overkill because I know I'll just keep upgrading the engine.
Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:02 pm
wompninja wrote: Is this what you guys are talking about? http://www.jbugs.com/product/90-6905.html?Category_Code=empi-vw-axles-assemblies
Isn't EMPI stuff just garbage?
wompninja wrote: Or this?
http://www.thethingshop.com/C_V-AXLE-SET-2-JOINTS-1-AXLE/productinfo/181501CV-SET/
Then I'd need thing stubs as well?
Yes, either one of those are what we are talking about.
If you want overkill for future builds, that's a different story. Empi has two styles of chromoly cages for 100mm joints. One is for a joint with a .750 ball, the other for a 20mm/.787 ball. You could buy some new GKN/Lobro Joints that probably will have the 20mm ball, and get the corresponding cage. Then get a set of off the shelf torsional Sway-A-Way Axles. Or have some 300m Axles made because most of the off the shelf 300m sizes are longer/larger in spline/diameter for the 930, and up joints. This will take you to the point of finding what else will become the weak link to break. Price differences are going to run around $220 for the Empi replacements to probably $700+ for the other stuff. Then you still need the stub axles, and flanges for the trans. Stock Thing stubs can be had anywhere from $100 to $150 a pair, and flanges $50-$100 a pair. The Empi stubs/flanges will work also, but you should be able to find stock VW stuff more than capable of handling hp for less.
mcmscott
Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:19 pm
Don't under estimate stock cv joints. A buddy I do gearboxes for drag races a full weight bug with stock cv joints, he also runs 11.60's.
Also whoever said thing cv joints have larger balls than t-2 got it backwards.
vwracerdave
Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:27 pm
Yes I guess I did get the balls backwards or upside down or sagging like an old man.
DO NOT get the China junk. Get real German CV joints.
Before I switched the Ghia to all Thing axles & Cv's parts I broke a few Type I CV joints at the drag strip and got tired of the nasty greasy mess changing them out. I never broke a stock axle.
wompninja
Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:34 pm
Yeah, it's not the axles I'm really worried about it's the CV's. I think I'll stick with stock axles and just upgrade the joints.
Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:10 pm
IMO in stock form, the Thing Joints are the strongest. Their part# is 113 501 331D. Unfortunately there aren't to many companies that make hd cages for them. Stock Type 2 Bus Joints are #211 501 331b, and hd cages are readily available for them. You will at least need to get a stock VW Thing halfshaft axle with the wider splines to accept the wider Thing/Bus joints. Some have ground the shoulder off a Beetle axle, or counterbore a Thing/Bus joint to fit on the narrow splines of a Beetle axle, but to me, its easiest to get a Thing axle. Another thing to think about is to use a Beetle cv on the outside to act as the weak link. It's cheaper, and easier to replace a joint than it is something internal in the trans.
saw2
Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:14 pm
I believe it's Porsche 924 and the early Porsche 944, 1984 and earlier will work. Axles, stub axles, cv joints which are the same as type IV. All you need is the stock thing transmission drive flanges or after market type I trans to type II cv flanges.
These Porsche axles and cv's are the right length for direct replacement with the Porsche stub axles.
I done this conversion on my buggy no problems.
There used to be a guy that sold the used Porsche sets minus the drive flanges here in the classifieds. Not sure if he is still posting in classifieds or not? That's where I got my set.
Glenn
Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:24 pm
I have Type 181 flanges, stub axles and CVs with some old, from the 80s, Sway-a-way axles.
slalombuggy
Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:39 pm
Top ranked drag racers have said time and again that Empis axles are superior to SAW axles for the last few years. I have over 200hp in my 57 beetle (IRS chassis) and run all stock type1 axles and CVs. I don't run really sticky tires, in fact they are pretty cheap tires. The tires will go up in smoke long before I break any parts. Lotus' formula cars used Beetle CVs for a time before they started breaking them on a regular basis, testament to their strength.
brad
Brian
Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:21 pm
If you have stock suspension and/or lowered you can look into U-joints.
(Bring on the hate)
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18Ton 1850MM German Type Square Beam Rear Semi Trailer Axles for Sale
Product Parameters
Axle Type
Max
Capacity
(T)
L2
Track
(mm)
Brake ( mm )
Bearing
Spring Seat
Installation
Axle
L4Centre Distanceof Brake Chamber
( mm)
JS12FA1347D
12
1840
φ420x 180
33118
33213
≥980
150
423
JS13FA1348D
13
1840
φ 420x 200
33118
33213
≥900
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150
360
JS14FA1348D
14
1840
φ 420x 200
32219
33215
≥900
150
356
JS16FA1348D
16
1850
φ 420x 200
322222
32314
≥900
150
360
JS18FA1348D
18
1850
Φ420x 200
322222
32314
≥900
150
380
Wheel Fixing
Total Length ( mm )
Recommended
Wheel
Weigth(Kg)
Stud
PCD(mm)
H(mm)
10-M22x 1.5ISO
335
280.8
~ 2144
7.5v-20
360
10-M22x 1.5ISO
335
280.8
~ 2144
7.5v-20
382
10-M22x 1.5ISO
335
280.8
~ 2198
8.0v-20
406
10-M22x 1.5ISO
335
280.8
~ 2265
8.5v-20
440
10-M22x 1.5ISO
335
280.8
~ 2265
8.5v-20
443
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Company Profile
Shandong Jinsheng Axle Manufacturing Co., Ltd., founded in 2000, is a professional manufacturer of trailer axle assemblies, semi-trailer suspension systems and correlative fittings in China. We are located in Quanpu Industry Zone which is the largest production base of trailers in China, in Liangshan, the famous scenic spot. We are one of specialized enterprises in the scientific research, design, production and sale, with more than 300 skilled employees and professional designers for different areas. We adopt the domestic and international technical standards in production, accurately grasp the information of the market demand and make quick and optimal designs. In this way, our axle, suspension and other fittings have the world-class technical quality through reasonable and advanced manufacture technologies. Our advanced processing technology, first-class production line and precision CNC machining equipment from home and abroad ensure the good quality of our semi-trailer axle assemblies, suspension systems and other correlative fittings. At the same time, our annual capacity for the export of American and German semi-trailer axle assemblies has achieved 60, 000 pieces and of suspension assemblies has achieved 50, 000 sets. We obtained the ISO9001: 2000 International Quality Management System Certification in 2003 and TS16949 Certification in 2007. "First-class product quality, the meticulous and thoughtful service, and win-win cooperation" is the philosophy that we always cherish. We not only meet the domestic market demand, but also export our products to Southeast Asia, the Middle East, Latin America and other countries, enjoying a good reputation. We always regard quality as life, and client as God. We will create a brilliant tomorrow with your sincere cooperation and support.
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-- Usually 20~35days once all information confirmed.
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